Anecdotal point. In the mid 90s, probably around 95, I got a GameBoy. I also had a SNES but really the GameBoy was my main gaming device. I stuck with the chonky thing until I finally upgraded to a GBC in 2000. Main reason? So I could play my existing GB games in colour. Mostly Pokemon because, well, Pokemon
A year later the GBA launched. I didn't pick it up. I knew it existed and was kinda into the idea of it, basically a portable SNES, but I was still happy with my then still new GBC. Then they stopped making GBC games so I just stopped playing the GB. I moved on to mostly PC games
.... of course I did pick up a DS when the Lite launched and every Nintendo console since but still. That's how these kinds of transitions can play out. People generally aren't platform loyal. You can give them something to loose or something to gain which helps but isn't really a guarantee. Platform holders are mostly just trying to be the one people pick on their way through
@skywake I did read the rest of your post, but to be honest it was 95% meaningless fluff that distracted from your handwaving comments that Nintendo doesn't need to cater towards it's biggest audience. And that's why I focused on it in my response.
All of your arguments for why a more powerful Switch is a compelling offering apply only to the Nintendo core audience (the kind of people who would buy a fridge if it had a Nintendo logo on it and played Super Mario Bros). The family audience doesn't care, the kid audience doesn't care, and the core gaming audience already have a range of devices that cater to the same needs that the Switch provides whilst also being more powerful - with more seemingly on the way.
All the while the Nintendo core audience is the smallest of section of the entire Switch audience.
When was the last time Nintendo catered to this audience? When they released hardware powerful enough to keep up with the rest of the industry? When they released Mother 3 outside of Japan or a new F-Zero game? When they made it easy for you to use their online services with voice chat? Nintendo doesn't have to care about this audience as it is literally the one that brings in the least money for them, they just dangle a couple of carrots (MP4, the possibility of WW/TP ports) for an entire generation and that's enough for most of this audience to pull the trigger. Meanwhile Nintendo is using the power of convenience combined with nostalgia to bring in a whole new audience that has propelled them to greater profits than all of their other generations combined. But sure; it's me that has this all backwards.
You have a wrong idea of the target audience of Nintendo video games. They are mainly teenagers - young adults, and to both of those groups the power of the hardware is very significant. Gaming is more popular than ever, and gimmicks can only get you so far. The only gimmick that has really worked in Nintendo's favor was the Wii, and this was the epitome of a one hit wonder, which quickly fell of after the novelty wore off. Nintendo doesn't need a one hit wonder, they need a system with longevity and little risk.
Nintendo's power has always been strong software, and as long as they produce compelling hardware at competitive prices that offers advantages over the competition (Switch has plenty of them), they will succeed.
So, the only thing that Nintendo needs to do with the Switch successor is make it more powerful, to get more support from 3rd party companies and be able to run games with modern graphics at respectable fps. A gimmick can be thrown for good measure but it will only be the cherry on top, not the selling point. Oh and the ergonomics of the hardware definitely need improving. The selling point of the Switch is the hybrid nature, and they do not need to change a thing to this concept. Thanks to this concept, the Switch will become the no 1 selling console ever within the next 1-2 years.
@Coversnail interesting...does that mean instead of Nintendo Switch's 32GB and OLED's 64GB, the Next console will have 256GB that I can store the games on?
Also that RAM sounds really, really good. Is that too good to be true?
Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door Remake HYPE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Is there any bad marketing/ reasons to avoid. For example reviews about new popular games running terribly. Switch has this increasingly (e.g. another Crab's Treasure) but Switch 2 presumably won't have this issue as much.
That might be true for a parent that hangs out on a Nintendo forum, but I don't think this is true for the majority of parents. Anecdotal, but my nieces & nephews all have Switches and I'm pretty sure none of their parents checked out any game reviews - especially with regard to performance - before buying them. Their main considerations were "Kids want a console, Switch is popular, portable, costs less than a PlayStation, and they have loads age appropriate games". Looking at sales figures for some technically poorly performing games tells me most people - even those that are buying the games - are not reading reviews for those games!
@BobLongRickTangle I haven't been here long myself but for someone who got here yesterday, you sure do make an entrance.
My two cents on the back and forth is that there will be a very small hook, something like magnetic joy cons (ignoring the potential plausibility) that Nintendo can advertise a little, and will give people something to recognize as a difference, but overall people can really be sold by things looking cool/pretty. Nintendo can sell people on the new console simply by making it apparent that what they have is old and dying. Slowly releasing less and less games as multiplats even over the first year, while they market their new console and its beautiful graphics or impressive load times, a large jump could be enough of a "hook".
Playstation and Xbox do so little new between consoles, and kids still want them. Combine the allure of something new, the strong quality of a Nintendo console's games, the brand familiarity of parents of Nintendo as a good company for kids, and I think selling kids and families on the new console will work well enough just based on power. (Though I still think a small hook to focus on will still pop up, and that can only help) The teenagers and adults will be able to see the huge gap in power, and will appreciate the bounty of AAA power that a new console brings.
I think Nintendo will have something small to think of as the console's "thing", but they will largely and could entirely survive and thrive on performance and power. (Translating to the public as really pretty visuals, big worlds, and fast load times; while most don't care about power, they can easily be hooked by what power brings)
Can I do a completionist run of video game history? (It's still being made so we'll see)
Currently Playing: Unicorn Overlord (Switch)
Next Up: Sand Land (PC)
Panic (Reality)
@BobLongRickTangle Nintendo's MO is to not only iterate between generations of hardware but also iterate during each generation of hardware. Been that way since the Gameboy. "Hey Nintendo fan, upgrade from a Game Boy to a Game Boy Lite." "Hey Nintendo fan, upgrade from a Game Boy Lite to a Game Boy Color."
"Hey Nintendo fan, upgrade from a Switch V1 to a Switch V2." "Hey Nintendo fan, upgrade from a Switch V2 to a Switch OLED." "Hey Nintendo fan, upgrade from a Switch OLED to a Switch 2."
The days of Nintendo needing a gimmick to sell their platform died with Satoru Iwata, may he rest in peace.
Switch Physical Collection - 1,252 games (as of April 30th, 2024)
Favorite Quote: "Childhood is not from birth to a certain age and at a certain age the child is grown, and puts away childish things. Childhood is the kingdom where nobody dies." -Edna St. Vincent Millay
@BobLongRickTangle Nintendo's MO is to not only iterate between generations of hardware but also iterate during each generation of hardware. Been that way since the Gameboy. "Hey Nintendo fan, upgrade from a Game Boy to a Game Boy Lite." "Hey Nintendo fan, upgrade from a Game Boy Lite to a Game Boy Color."
What you're describing here is an iteration of a platform. What we're talking about is a successor platform.
What you're describing here is an iteration of a platform. What we're talking about is a successor platform.
As am I. DS played GB games. 3DS played DS games. Switch 2 will play Switch 1 games.
No gimmicks required. Just continue doing the thing Nintendo has been doing for decades.
Could be worse. I could be a PC gamer who feels compelled to upgrade their rig every few years.
Switch Physical Collection - 1,252 games (as of April 30th, 2024)
Favorite Quote: "Childhood is not from birth to a certain age and at a certain age the child is grown, and puts away childish things. Childhood is the kingdom where nobody dies." -Edna St. Vincent Millay
@Magician why not just release a Switch Pro then? They have clearly stated this is a successor console and as I pointed out in an earlier post, this comes with the expectation that it will have games developed exclusively for the system that don't work on previous generation systems, and that the audience starts again from zero. There's so much more risk involved when they could do the exact same thing as you are suggesting with a Pro model whilst removing all of the risk.
The Switch as it is is compelling. It's a great product. But its greatest weakness against its competitors is its lack of power. A more capable version of the Switch closes that gap. A more capable version of the Switch means that people already invested in the Switch are more likely to upgrade to the Switch 2 than to move on to PC, PS5, Steam Deck. A more capable version of the Switch existing on the market means that someone interested in buying into a platform is more likely to pick Nintendo than they otherwise would have
The problem is that it's not just the PC, PS5, and Steam Deck. Multiple companies are getting in on the hybrid console market. Microsoft and Sony are considering handhelds. And you can bet that Valve is going to be looking to make a more powerful Steam Deck. And they might be narrowing that gap but the gap still exists and competitors' hybrids are more likely to completely close it. So what's Nintendo going to do then? They'll have kept the power lower for that hybrid form factor and have nothing to show for it. That's what you need a gimmick/innovation for. Nintendo needs to stay a step ahead of competitors, they're always copying Nintendo's homework and doing it with even more powerful hardware. The Switch is going to lose its niche of being the go-to hybrid console soon, that's why the Switch 2 needs something extra.
@BobLongRickTangle Didn't you get the memo? The Switch Pro was planned, developed, and then cancelled.
Look...I'll save you a long retort. Point is Nintendo President Furukawa is (admittedly perhaps not 100% translation-accurate) on record saying that the Switch 2 is just more of the same.
Switch Physical Collection - 1,252 games (as of April 30th, 2024)
Favorite Quote: "Childhood is not from birth to a certain age and at a certain age the child is grown, and puts away childish things. Childhood is the kingdom where nobody dies." -Edna St. Vincent Millay
It's not going to be just a more powerful Switch. The design will have some improvements too. Maybe analogue triggers, or an extra button or two, or as mentioned in a rumour, microphone, or maybe just a key chain notch for charms.
I never drive faster than I can see. Besides, it's all in the reflexes.
@Bolt_Strike what fantasy world is this coming from?
This is like people actually thinking a switch pro was ever in development.
With what hardware? With Nvidia we had lapsu$ steal nvidias internal roadmap, we knew there was no maxwell or even pascall product that could be a base for a switch pro.
Amd showed us their roadmap, and isn't updating any apu past the strix/kraken 'rdna3+' until at least 2027/8, and none of those apu's that can be used in a portable pc format are going to come with a render config that can make a 12 sm ampere obsolete, and they'll be running the one size fits all pc versions of the games, not a customized console version.
No wonder nintendos felt like they can take their time.
@BobLongRickTangle Didn't you get the memo? The Switch Pro was planned, developed, and then cancelled.
Ok more speculation and assumptions I see. Counter-speculation: the much rumoured Switch Pro was always the Switch OLED that insiders assumed would have more power, but was never intended to have a more powerful chip as Nintendo didn't think it was worthwhile/helpful to their strategy. I have no evidence to back-up this claim but then neither do you, so stalemate, I guess?
Then we have a quote from Furukawa that is (likely purposely) incredibly vague (the Japanese are masters of implicit communication) - all this really tells us is that the successor system will be a hybrid console, everything else is pure speculation.
While we're on the topic of official quotes from Furukawa on Nintendo's next-gen hardware, how about this one from February this year: "In this environment, there’s an increasing need, more than ever before, to continue offering unique propositions to become a brand that customers choose."
or how about this one from Shinya Takahashi (Director and Senior Managing Executive Officer) in Nov last year: “Recently, the hardware and software development teams have been holding discussions as a single unit, starting in the early stages of hardware development” and then went on to say how this allows them to “develop hardware that enable new ideas in software”
or the ones from Doug Bowser stating in March 2023 that the aim for the next console is to “surprise & delight” and will “introduce new unique ways of playing”:
Nintendo President Furukawa is (admittedly perhaps not 100% translation-accurate) on record saying that the Switch 2 is just more of the same.
Why do I see everyone just accepting this tweet as proof of anything? Who is this David Gibson and where is the actual official transcript of what Furukawa said? This is just hearsay.
Nintendo does not need more power to grow its customer base. Realistically, Switch has pretty much hit a ceiling. Nintendo should more be focusing on retaining their core audience through the likes of Mario Kart, Animal Crossing, Pokemon and Zelda, and affordable hardware. The growth can only realistically come from other sources e.g. movies, theme parks etc.
Making the next hardware disproportionately more powerful to try and compete with Steam et al will also make it more expensive and seriously risk adoption from some of the core audience.
You guys had me at blood and semen.
What better way to celebrate than firing something out of the pipe?
The last time a Nintendo console was just a power upgrade was the SNES. I see absolutely 0 reason they would start to change how they approach console creation now. I'm fully expecting the next console to have something that makes it stand out from a marketing standpoint, even if it's a smaller change.
Nintendo also almost always markets the next console as a successor whether it's like the Wii U and is similar to the last or more like the Gamecube which is very different. I don't think they have really said anything that we should read too far into since Nintendo never really gives us info before an official reveal and just says what will sound good in headlines, which is what they should do.
I can see the arguement that Nintendo repurpose 'unsuccessful hardware.' Wii was 2 gamecubes celotaped together is the joke. But the DS was genius. The Switch was genius. They don't have to repurpose it. But their success (and failure) comes software that can't be played on other systems (which is prevailent in the design of their consoles and the over protective legal team.) so I would put money on it being a Switch with something extra. The power bump (and it will be a bump!) won't be the only thing they are touting. Switch next model is precisely that. I.e we should be asking what is next for Switch.
I never drive faster than I can see. Besides, it's all in the reflexes.
Forums
Topic: The Nintendo Switch Rumor and Speculation Thread
Posts 4,341 to 4,360 of 4,584
Please login or sign up to reply to this topic